[Nick Flint Posts: 5081 Status: Offline]

or----- operate without the hard top doors to drastically reduce the risk of dying. Loose fitting soft top over the T bar?  Much lighter. Ive removed my flood light from the top of my duct as it was such a pain to get in my workshop. Certainly a bouyancy / floatation device would be more intrusive than my light.


 I assume you are revisiting the craft floatation aspects after the Loch Fyne BBV 6 "unwillingness to float"?      :'(

[Ian Brooks Posts: 3605 Status: Offline]

You could use the auto C02 gassing system from a life jacket to blow the top off with a little thought!

[joncurtis Posts: 2087 Status: Offline]

its the screen out of a saab 900, suppose i could get a generic seal strip, the one i have off a saab has been soaking in silicon oil for the last 4 months. it has the strips on the outside.
good idea if rolled over on land, but not sure there would be time to do such a thing if upside down on water. was thinking of putting a self righting bag, like you get on a rib, ontop the duct.

[Al Posts: 1010 Status: Offline WWW]

As an added safety feature, maybe fit the windscreen with the old type rubber surround, but instead of having the rubber sealing insert on the outside, have it on the inside with a pull toggle in both the top corners of the screen.  That way you could pull the rubber insert out easily the kick the windscreen out.  It's not perfect, but could give you an escape route in an emergency on land or water.

[joncurtis Posts: 2087 Status: Offline]

anyone got any experience of self righting systems for boats? was thinking about putting one on the top of the duct on the large craft. i have a full enclosed cabin to go on this stupid great craft i have, and am worried what would happen if it goes over.

[Ian Brooks Posts: 3605 Status: Offline]

My thoughts on the matter…

Having a “little experience “ of actually needing a life jacket I can say that 160N is sufficient. When I went in wearing heavy clothes I did not surface until the jacket went off. Once it did , I popped up like a cork.

I would also say that unless trained and well drilled I do not think you would easily find the toggle and inflate a manual jacket. You’ll be in the cold and dark water and having experienced it, I cannot imagine having to fumble around for a toggle - would you even remember which side it was? Maybe you would - but not a chance I’m
taking!

Ian

[John Robertson Posts: 5281 Status: Online WWW]

In 'normal' UK coastal water, unless you're wearing a survival suit, the cold shock will make you unable to manually inflate a lifejacket,  Something to consider versus the odds of getting trapped under a hull (which is a 'safe' place so some time is available).

The auto (or manual) jackets should be checked every year.  Inflate the bladder (using an air pump) to check for bad leaks (if it stays inflated for 3-4 hours then its good - you won't survive longer than that anyway  ).  You should also check the gas cylinder is in date  (provided it isn't corroded and weighs what it says on the stamp then I usually keep it - but to be absolutely certain, replace if expired).  Also worth checking the trigger on auto jackets looks good.  I'm still using 25 year old auto jackets (not with the same cylinders!).   In my experience, the bladder is the bit that eventually fatigue fails (or the outer velcro gives up).

[Steve Holland Posts: 1649 Status: Offline]

RNLI use manual inflation jackets. Personal choice at the end of the day, pros and cons with both as always.

[rossfloyd Posts: 2052 Status: Offline]

I've gone away from auto inflation jackets and now have manual ones.  As you say, the thought of getting trapped under an upturned hull is not very appealing.  Having done the sea survival course I felt that a manual one was just as good for the likely scenarios and to be trapped under an upturned hull with a high flotation jacket and have to deflate it to swim clear ...and by inference discharge a lot of co2 into a confined space where air was at a premium .. would not be for the best.


We did find incidentally that during the survival course being prepared to deflate and inflate the jacket as needed to alter your buoyancy was really useful... but that was in a heated swimming pool.  I am not sure if my brain would consider this option in a panic situation in cold salt water.

[Nick Flint Posts: 5081 Status: Offline]

Ah thanks Dave. That infers a 160 N to be about correct for what I operate in. The behaviour of the operative does change dangers and I feel many years experience in this type of safe craft suggests 160 to be "enough".
I was once turned over whilst racing but the water was only 18 inches deep so swimming out from under was difficult but possible. If I had been wearing 275 auto inflatable- I think i would still be there (or in a nearby church yard.)

[Dave Munday Posts: 270 Status: Offline]

Nick, I don't know if this will help 










+15




























A life jacket or buoyancy aid's ability to support a person in the water is primarily determined by its Newton (N) rating (buoyancy level), not the person's dry weight on land. A person weighing 12 stone (approximately 76 kg or 168 lbs) will weigh very little in the water, so standard adult life jackets with a sufficient Newton rating will provide more than enough buoyancy to float them.
The key factor in choosing a life jacket is the activity and the type of water you will be in, as this dictates the required Newton rating and style of the device.

Newton Ratings Explained
Life jackets and buoyancy aids (PFDs) in the UK/EU are rated in Newtons (N), following the ISO 12402 standard. The higher the number, the greater the buoyancy and the safer the device for rougher conditions. 50N Buoyancy Aid (ISO 12402-5): A buoyancy aid for competent swimmers in sheltered waters where help is close at hand. It offers great freedom of movement but will not turn an unconscious person face-up.

• 100N Life Jacket (ISO 12402-4): Suitable for use in calm, inshore, or sheltered waters. It gives a reasonable assurance of safety for swimmers and non-swimmers but may not be able to self-right an unconscious person, especially if they are wearing heavy clothing.
• 150N Life Jacket (ISO 12402-3): A general-purpose life jacket for coastal and offshore waters. It is designed to turn an unconscious person onto their back and keep their mouth and nose clear of the water surface. This is a common and appropriate choice for most adult sailing and motorboating activities.
• 275N Life Jacket (ISO 12402-2): Designed for extreme offshore conditions or when wearing heavy protective clothing that traps air and affects buoyancy. It provides the highest level of buoyancy to ensure the user is floating in the correct position.

Sizing and Fit
The most important factor is a proper fit, not the weight range specified on the label. All adult life jackets are designed to support an adult's body weight in water. Try it on: A life jacket should fit snugly.

• Check the fit: Pull up on the shoulders of the life jacket; if it moves up past your ears or chin easily, it is too big.
• Secure all straps: Ensure all zips, buckles, and especially the crotch straps (if included) are secured to prevent the jacket from riding up in the water.

For your weight of 12 st (76 kg), any standard adult life jacket rating (100N, 150N, or 275N) will provide the necessary lift, with the specific choice depending on your intended use and the water conditions you anticipate.

[Nick Flint Posts: 5081 Status: Offline]

My WAY too old Seago 275 auto life jacket has erroneously activated whilst stored in my dry workshop.
I view this as a fortunate exercise as i can no longer ignore its obvious need for replacement. Interestingly- The buoyancy deflated to zero over a couple of days so I presume there was indeed a tiny leak in the bladder?
Question-
What are the general thoughts ref size of new one to be bought?
I reckon MY 275 is the highest buoyancy to consider, but are 160 or 190 adequate.
I believe auto operation to be generally preferred with the only down size being capsize which would make swimming out
from under the upturned craft difficult?
Can I ask others their preferences? Auto or Manual?
I do not operate with my craft via a wrist band power cut off as I believe the down sides of such out weigh the advantage.